Hey guys I was thinking about what has been done with bikes. Lets see V-twin's, inline 4's and 3's, tandem 2's and yes car engines (Tomahawk) but what about a rotary engine? Could you imagine a 20,000+ reving motor. I was thinking of two single counter rotating rotars or 2 transversely mounted. You gotta think in the RX-8 a 1.3L 1300cc puts out 237 hp with no mods. figure a 1000cc could easily do 190-200 hp and a 600 140-150 hp. Imagine the scream of that machine. Just wondering what you all felt about that because I am designing such a bike as we speak in Max 8.0. :P

some one back in the 70's made a rotary powered motorcycle, i want to say suzuki's re5... there are a lot of benefits to a rotary, but the heat that is generated from them is enormous. that i believe was one of the main problems.
actually, a 1000 should be able to put out 250 hp, no problem. the powerband would be like a high strung 2 stroke though. can you say wheelies...


suzuki's RE-5 (http://www.rotaryrecycle.net/re5.asp)

notice how a 500cc in '75 put out 55 ftlbs. of torque...todays 600, 100 cc more, and 35 years later is only able to produce 45, maybe fifty when building the motor up.

found this on google (http://www.millville.org/workshops_f/kess_mech/tools/1tools/norton.html#F1)

i test drove an rx8 ... for all the reving it sounded like it was doing it wasnt going as fast as i thought it should be :|

:( Oh well, I guess I'll never do anything original, LOL. I'm sure with some heat shielding, good cooling, insulation, and torque regulation...it could be possible.

just form a new major manufactor. it doesnt have too be too big, ducati/ferarri size would work ;)

I Remember the Norton Rotary F1 used to be awsome in the BSB series in the early 90's :D

http://www.realclassic.co.uk/norton04092300.html

Just found a great site dedicated to this bike, full of history and some great riders :D

http://www.jpsnorton.com/start.asp

P.S. The Brits are always first as far as Automotive Engineering is Concerned :P

P.S. The Brits are always first as far as Automotive Engineering is Concerned :P

id have to disagree with that...though i seem to always like whatever cosworth puts out, its always top of the line!:)

(SERIOUS FEED BACK) Hey would you guys go for a Ferrari style paddle shift bike? Also I was thinking of doing away with the instrument cluster and the mirrors as well. I say this because I thought of making an advaced helmet to come with the bike that has a HUD display. It will display all the importatnt info and to either side will have camera views of the helmets two 45 degree (relative) and 180 degree facing mini CCD cameras. I would like to put a voice activated NAV system with built in 20GB mp3 player and BOSE head phones. I was also thinking of this set up: Full carbon fiber frame, sub-frame and swing arm. CNC milled 7071 aluminum engine and transmission. Braided aluminum brakelines with large Brembo (factory installed) calipers. Full Ohllins suspension (factory installed) system, gold coated. Full tatainium exhaust with flush side pipes and cowl stored muffler. Race glass or carbon fiber cowls; which ever is lighter. Xenon head lamps with flush LED turn signals front and rear. 7 speed manual F1 style or traditional shift cartridge transmission. Oh and lets not forget 17" Machesini (factory installed) wheels. I will post a rough sketch of the bike soon. It will be posted on this thread so keep a look out. Ok guys thanks alot. :twisted: :) :twisted:

to be honest, i dont think the helmet idea would work very well. you already have enough to look at, you dont need info blocking your vision, or at the least, distracting you. while i would drool over a carbon frame with ohlins suspenders, and brembo brakes, and the likes, it is just not feasable for a production bike. youre looking at some serious money, and unless there is a shitload of R&D effort put into it, the price could not be justified. i would not like a paddle shift, the toe works just fine. my hands are busy enough as it is. the instrument cluster need to remain, but only cuz i dont think the HUD idea would work well.

keep in mind, these are just my opinions.:)

:) No, prob Cal I know, I want opinions from real riders. What about a Magnesium frame and swing arm, CNC milled of course? Oh yeah guys one more detail. Single swing or Two sided swing arm? Me personnaly I love the MV Agusta style single but I want your guy's input. :) ;)

Here is my rough sketch of my SPECTREMOTO SR1-RR 1000cc 2 wankle rotar bike. 210 hp at the rear wheel achivied by two counter rotating longitudanly mounted rotars. Here is the sketch below. :twisted:

well, ducatis sold its 30K motogp replicas like hot cakes ;)

paddle shifters? how about the no clutch shifting like the motogp boys have? or are they still using the clutch to downshift? you should only go with a seven speed tranny if the engines power band is really peaky and narrow.

single arms are fine ... i guess.

btw - didnt the mv f4 golds (all 40 or 50 of them) have sand blast magnesium swing arm, chassis, and rims?

btw - didnt the mv f4 golds (all 40 or 50 of them) have sand blast magnesium swing arm, chassis, and rims?

I dont know? I think the new Aprilia RSV1000-R Factory for '06 has that. heres a pic below. Those RSV's would be nicer bikes if they'd stop putting those big exhaust pipes on the side and made them more like on the new R6 or GSX-R 600 and 750; or like on the CBR.

I Remember the Norton Rotary F1 used to be awsome in the BSB series in the early 90's :D

http://www.realclassic.co.uk/norton04092300.html

Just found a great site dedicated to this bike, full of history and some great riders :D

http://www.jpsnorton.com/start.asp

P.S. The Brits are always first as far as Automotive Engineering is Concerned :P

hi new here, i remember the norton rotary bikes racing, used to love the fact they had no sponsors and the leathers were black and black helmet, basically an up yours to all the major manufacturers saying they didnt need sponsors, good on ya british engineering :lol:

Yeah Quite Right Spudboy, I Remember they used to blast past the opposition on the straights and used to suffer on the brakes as no engine braking,

Going on about that Scenario anyone remember the Volvo T5 in Brit Touring Cars as i remember they used to rely on the oppositions brakes IE RAM UM UP THE ARSE :)

Infact it was the old Volvo 850 - Drivers Rydell, Harvey and Lammers as you can see from the photo's

Yeah Quite Right Spudboy, I Remember they used to blast past the opposition on the straights and used to suffer on the brakes as no engine braking,

Going on about that Scenario anyone remember the Volvo T5 in Brit Touring Cars as i remember they used to rely on the oppositions brakes IE RAM UM UP THE ARSE :)


What is engine braking? ;)

engine braking is when you let off the throttle, and the enigine slows the back tyre/wheel combo. this is more apparent in 4 strokes, and 2 strokes have almost none.

btcc was awesome back in the day...i loved watching volvos, nissan primera's, audis and benz 190e 2.5s ripping it up. and damn they could run around the corners.

to be slightly more exact, isnt that when you down shift to a gear thats too low for the speed you traveling and you gradually let out the clutch as the revs and wheel speed catch up?

i still do that with my new rsx since im still not completely used to the 6 speed.

Just Bang it down the gears es nes if timed right you will not over rev the engine and combined with brakes and clutch all 3 can be used to alter the aspect of the car as in weight transfer etc - it's all about feel and practice ;)

well, ive not over reved, but my downshifts havent always been the smoothist. ;)

unforseen satement in 3 ... 2 ...

i really need to learn to ride. specially around here, theres a few 03-05 style r6s floating around, a red rc51, a red ducati monster, a yellow 750 naked super sport, a few cbr1/6rrs ... and its summer all year around here.

Just Bang it down the gears es nes if timed right you will not over rev the engine and combined with brakes and clutch all 3 can be used to alter the aspect of the car as in weight transfer etc - it's all about feel and practice ;)

the heel-toe shift. very effective, but only when properly executed. otherwise, it upsets the chassis greatly. basically, when you want to downshift, you push the clutch in with your left foot while using your right to brake, simultaneously blip the throttle (a quick stab with the heel of your right foot) and downhift the selecter one gear. the let the clutch out when the revs are matched...that part just takes practice. to be honest, its much easier to do when you are hauling ass, and on the brakes real hard.

to be slightly more exact, isnt that when you down shift to a gear thats too low for the speed you traveling and you gradually let out the clutch as the revs and wheel speed catch up?

actually, its really just a term for the momentum of the vehicle fighting the engine compression. when you are in gear, and yet just let off the gas, what slows you down is the piston compressing the intake air. higher compression engines greatly display this trait. with four strokes, and static compression ratios in the 12.5-13.5 range (modern sportbike), sometimes under hard braking, the force is enough that the rear tire starts to lock up, and this produces that chatter you hear people talking about. modern 2 stroke engines only have a static comp. ratio around 7, some lower, some higher. because of this and the firing frequency, 2 strokes have very little compression braking...sorry, a little OT.

what you are talking about is called "slipping the clutch". its effective for most driving, but when 10/10ths, its hurts times. the clutch is not as predictable as the compression braking, and you dont always have the revs right where you need them to be. sometimes you have to wait for the clutch to "catch", and that is precious time not on the throttle.

Blipping the throttle on a bike is dead simple once you get into the habit. Being an twin my SV's got bags of engine braking and tbh I use it just as much as the brake lever if I'm going for a blast. Encourages smooth riding and tends to ensure you come out of the corner at a decent part of the rev range. Sounds good too. ;)

bags of torque from a 650? :lol:

sorry! :P

actually, he said bags of engine braking, not torque. and the 650 is a torquey motor. compared to the new ninja 650, the sv's motor stomps the kawi out! and kawi is known for their motors being pretty strong, right out of the box.

on topic: i think you should go with a dual arm swingarm. they are stronger, more rigid, and easier to implement. serviceablitly is also better with a traditional swingarm. plus, ducati axed the single sided one in faver of a two sided arm on their new 999. if someone like ducati does that, there is a reason behind it...

regarding a 7 speed tranny, its wont be necessary, UNLESS, the rotors you are using are extremely high strung, like around 250-270 hp. that is my guess. the powerband on rotaries get narrower and narrower as the specific output goes up. while this is true for all engines, for rotaries, is becomes critically important to retain the driveability aspect, especially on a bike.

es you muppet, engine braking and torque are pretty different things. ;) And if we are going down that route, like callaghan says, compared to any middleweight sportsbike the SV will have more lowdown torque simply because it's a twin.

Anyway, what do I care, I'm hoping to make the switch to a dirtbike soon anyway. :D

Here is a new base template for my bike. I will be able to update later on in October since I am leaving for 6 months and I wont have a computer until my laptop ships out to me. I have have dubbed it the F9RR.

*999 cc Rotary drive engine.

*6 speed cartridge transmission.

*Magnesium frame, sub-frame, forks, single swing arm, sprocket and other components. (weight consideration)

*Carbon fiber farrings, chain guard, rear hugger, front fender, mono tail, gas tank and airbox (weight consideration)

*Integrated LED signals and hidden license plate (areodynamics consideration)

*Marchesini 17" forged magnesium wheels (weight & performance consideration)

*Motoczysz adj. oval fork set (areodynamics consideration)

*Full race spec titainium exhaust system (weight & performance consideration)


Ideas are welcome :twisted: :twisted:
*Ohlins rear adj. suspension and dampers

one thing i would love to see, and i think would be a necessity for a bike of this caliber, is 4 pad, 4 piston monoblocks. that would be the shiznit. and a brembo radial master cylinder. also there should be an option for 16.5 wheels too, since it looks like a price no object design.

is this to be a production bike?

Production, maybe if a manufacturer would back it. There is alot of this bike I dont have to make. The Motoczysz forks would be ideal; I hope they release there system as an aftermarkey one. Carbon fiber is pretty cheap by itself and I can find an upolsterer to make the seat. Realisticly, I would probably have to opt for a traditional fork set. What I am goint to do is apply for a 30,000 dollar loan and buy all my materials and parts. The only things I will have to make are the engine, frame, sub-frame and body work. The rest of the stuff is pre-made by other makers. One day I hope to build my own bike in its entirety. Oh by the way are 16.5" wheels better than 17"? I just want to know? I hope to have this bike done by late 2008. I will have to look for fabricators around town. I would like to have the main frame of the bike as a one piece CNC machined part as well as the sub-frame. The swing arm I can have made of my own design or I can just buy a R.A.M. SS Swing Arm. The 4 piston mono blocks you speak of; are those the one swith 2 calipers on it like the pic below?

ducati motogp rep page (http://www.motorcycledaily.com/01june06_ducati_desmosedici.htm)

"The numerous racing components of this high-performance machine also include its Brembo brakes. Up front the Desmosedici RR features a new pair of radial 'monoblock' callipers with four 34 mm pistons: monoblock technology, until now only used for racing callipers, allows calliper stiffness to be increased, thus improving braking response; the front brake system is completed by a radial master cylinder, with hinged lever and remote 'quick' adjuster. The pair of front brake discs are the same as those used on the GP6 in its wet weather race set-up: two semi-floating 320 mm x 6 mm discs, with machined flange. The Brembo rear brakes are made up of a 240 mm fixed disc and a floating calliper with two 34 mm pistons."

that would be a soo so sweet set up.

16.5" wheels arent necessarily worse or better. i think its mostly preference, but in general, a 16.5" set up will turn quicker. there is less mass with a smaller wheel, so you reduce unsprung weight.

Oh I see about the 16.5" that is a better idea. I saw the price for a GP spec Ohlins suspension and it is 9,000 dollars + the brembos are 2700 dollars the wheels are about 2900 dollars, LOL. I think I should get a 40K loan huh. I want to use a Magnetti Marelli for fuel mapping and ingnition timming. Here are some rough paint schemes I made up. I think I should re-start on the model. It will look better thatn the 2D drawings I have been making.

*does anyone think my tail is too high? Also is my seat to long? I already found on proble; the rear wheel was too small (scale) for the bike and I never added the sub-frame, LOL. I thought it looked a little naked back there, LOL.

He He, It looks like my bike is the love child of an orgy between a CBR 1K RR, Desmo RR, Gusta F4 and C1, LOL

Here is the bike with a full Ohlins GP Spec suspension system in various color schemes and displacements.

F6RR 600cc 150hp :

red/red,
white/white,
black/black,
yellow/yellow
_______________________________
F7RR 750cc 170hp :

black/carbon/peral yellow,
black/carbon/pearl white
black/carbon/pearl navy
black/carbon/pearl red
_______________________________
F9RR 999cc 200 hp

pearl metallic black/carbon
pearl metallicblack/red carbon
pearl metallicblack/yellowcarbon
pearl metallicwhite/redcarbon
_______________________________
F12RR 1199 cc 240 hp

red carbon/black carbon
black carbon/black carbon
silver carbon/silver carbon

2 more colors for the line up. I have also made a final picture to show the bikes with the correct color schemes. All of the F9RR's will have magesium frames, swing arm and sub-frame. The F7RR's will have black powder coated aluminum (matte black) parts and the F6RR will have brushed aluminum parts as you can see from the picture #3 However, those are just what they all come like. Frames and wheels are optional; so you can pick what you want. Color schemes will be tailorable as well at the customers request.

The F12RR has a FULL carbon fiber chassis as well as 10 spoke carbon (Blackstone Tek) Marchesini style wheels. Everything else is coated in a dark titanium finish or smoked anodized.

the frame/swing arm would look better in black imo. im not much of a fan of single sidearms to be honest too ...

so ill take one with clear coated carbon fibre fairings and matching black rims/swing arm and frame ;)

the frame/swing arm would look better in black imo. im not much of a fan of single sidearms to be honest too ...

so ill take one with clear coated carbon fibre fairings and matching black rims/swing arm and frame ;)
As requested M8! :twisted:

now all i need is the red led bar underneth the headlight :lol:

now all i need is the red led bar underneth the headlight :lol:

Well when I build the model (which should be done by the end of October); I will put one on for you man. I know my 2d art sux but trust me my 3D art is much better.Check out my FNH SCAR Mk.17 prototype, AK-47 reciever and GMG 40mm Grenade launcher.

Here is the tail section so far.

im curious to see how youll bolt in the engine.

im curious to see how youll bolt in the engine.

Me too, LOL.

What do you think now; better or worse in design? :twisted:

*F10RR, F7RR, F6RR, F12RR, F14RR??? Think I should? The FRR-8 will be the GP bike model name and the AMA WSBK (shown below) bike will be called the F10AR

the underseat exhaust adds a little something, but, the "buel"/motogp style exhaust is more interesting ... at least in concept imo.

the underseat exhaust adds a little something, but, the "buel"/motogp style exhaust is more interesting ... at least in concept imo.

Yeah I like the Buel style too. I may go back to it and just have one large oval exhaust opening. I dont know if you noticed but I cut holes in the frame too to save even more wieght =o) :twisted: Here is the FRR-8 Moto GP race bike. I gave it a normal swing arm made of carbon fiber and a carbon fiber frame as well. I also added a high-cap fuel tank, new tail and dual oval straight pipes. I also raked the nose back a little also to make it more aerodynamic.

looks good, but, i thought carbon fibre was illegal for frame/swingarm? good luck getting your rotary legalized though :P

Carbon Illegal?, =o(....."make me very sad in pants" - Not Another Teen Movie" qoute

I have been trying to find a pdf of the actual 2006 or 2007 rules. I wish I could download the real rule book. I guess its back to magnesium, LOL. I added the double arm because I was pretty sure singles were illegal. Well, I am on deployment now and my ALIENWARE wont be here until October 20th. So I can build or draw until then, LOL. If you find the rules please post them here foir me. =o)

singles arent illegal, but, theres a reason why honda switched to a dual arm for the rc45 for the last few years of its life.

What was the reason for that? Hey I was thinking of a tube frame like the Ducati's. Do you think that would be better or worse than my Hollow frame?

as i understand it, the only real advantage to a single is quick tyre change. dual/normal swing arms can be lighter and stiffer.

youve to remember ducati also switched from a single to "normal" swing arm as well so ...

Yeah, I see what you mean Es nes. I was looking at my design and I think my nose is a bit short as compared to other bikes. I will be designing a "naked" and a "motard" bike. The naked one will obviously be the current bike with no side farrings. it will have a small belly farring but thats it. The seat will remain the same. I am really thinking of going to a hollow tube frame to save even more weight. I will also maybe revert back to an oval fork set but of my own design with mounts for 4 piston calipers front and 4 piston rear. Tires: front....120/70ZR 17 rear....190/50ZR 17. :twisted:

id go for the naked one since the mv agusta brutale 910 is at the top/top 3 on my wish list.

any reason you went with those tire choices? why not a 190/60-17? steeper angle, sharper steering, and more lateral grip.

I just thought those tires would be good because they were on the R1LE, LOL.

Okay I have change the swingarm to a standard one. It will be a tubular frame design like on the Bimota DB5 and not a solid piece. It just looks sick like that. I will post new pics as soon as my laptop gets out to me.